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(Continued from Part-2)

(Note: This bill brought forward by the hon. Member, Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat for inclusion of Banjara caste in the list of Schedule Caste.)

SHRIMATI KRISHNA SAHI: True, I cannot deny it. I have said that a little attention must be paid in selection of words when one speaks in Parliament.

SHRI SYED MASUDAL HOSSAIN (Murshidabad): Girls are illtreated. It will continue.. (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI KRISHNA SAHI: The matter is related to girls. So diginity should be maintained.... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: No such thing is there. Carry on.... (Interruptions)

SHRI PREM CHAND RAM: Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is all right, the position should be presented in some other way but where should I recount the factual position if not her when I have got an opportunity to discuss in the House, should I do so on the road? 496 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat 17.00 hrs. [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair] However, if you say, I stop speaking. (Interruptions) I will speak the truth. These castes have been neglected centuries and in history too,, it has been called Shudra The bells were tied around their necks. After attaining independence,there was a great deal of hope. When Constitution was framed and when there were talks for the welfare of these people, there were talks of social security state and social justice, there were talks of fundamental rights and it was said that people of weaker sections would get justice. Castes like Schedule Castes and Schedule tribes were included in schedule which were neglected from all sides, concern was expressed for their development. (Interruptions) If it is our moral duty and if the House is really expressing its concern and is ready to adopt a practical attitude then it is my appeal to the entire House that the Government will not ignore this issue.

I hope from the Government that if it is really worried, it must order a thorough inquiry and after inquiry, whoever falls within the criteria and those who have been socially and educationally neglected and those who have been oppressed by now must be given due place in society. A Parliamentary Committee should be constituted for this purpose in which Harijans, adivasis, and M.Ps. of Schedule Castes and Schedule Tribes should be included. And they should be limited so that they can carry out inquiry impartially. If they will not do it impartially, who will do it then/ if they are included and if tthey will not be impartial even then, the House or the Government will owe no responsibility. If there is any hesitation to do so, then I will draw inference from it that the Government is once again preparing to introduce a Bill to draw people to its side just to appease them., Thereafter it will bring second, third and fourth Bill but this is no solution to the poor cannot be done away with. The injustice being meted out to the gravity of the situation. So I support this Bill 497 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat and I hope from the Government that it will include those people also who are neglected from all sides and will adopt a broad outlook. This is what we hope from the Government with these word I conclude.

MAJOR D.D KHANORIA (Kangra): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Bill brought by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat which is about backward classes and S.Cs.and STs. It is true that unless the backward and poor people are not provided assistance by Government, they cannot prosper. The problem is not limited to a particular State only but it is the problem of the entire country. A large number of people live below the poverty line through out the country. The Government will have to look after them.

I think a high level committee should be constituted for the upliftment of the backward. So that such issues are not discussed in the House again. Even in States, all the castes are not included in the list. Several castes have been included and several castes are left. As my friend told that the poor people should get maximum reservation in education. If they progress in education, they will also cross the poverty line one day. There should be reservation not only in Government services but also in each and every institution. I represent the Kangra constituency of Himachal Pradesh. There are Goojars, Bagarwals and Gaddis in my constituency. These people have not been included in the list of SC/ST. I would like to request the hon. Minister of Welfare that these castes should be included in SC/ST so that people living in hill areas could also avail of these facilities.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to give one more suggestion. The families which cross poverty line after availing this benefit should be stopped this benefit so that other families could avail it. I would also like that the Committee to be constituted by the Government should collect information in respect of the whole country and should include those castes in the list which have not so far been included. I support this Bill and conclude.

498 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat

SHRI MANIKRAO HODLYA GAVIT (Nandarbar): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am also thankful to you for giving me an opportunity to speak on this Bill. I am also thankful to Rawat Saheb who has expressed his views on Schedule-Castes, Schedule Tribes and backward castes in the House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am a tribal and in each State come castes want to be included in ST list. They may have different problems. There are Tribal Research Institutes and Departments in every State and they conduct research on it. After research work of hundreds of years they indemnify castes which originally belong to Schedule Castes and Schedule Tribes and the castes which want to be included in their lists. So far as I know people belonging to Schedule Castes are not getting those facilities which they are entitled to get. In my State of Maharashtra several people are availing its benefits on the false Schedule Caste and Schedule Tribes certificates in jobs and education. In fact, people who belong to Schedule Castes and Schedule Tribes live in hill and rural areas and people who want to be included in this list lives in cities. This is the age of competitions and importance is given to merit in every sphere of life.

The real tribal people live in hill and rural areas. Therefore, they cannot come in merit list. And the bogus tribals living in cities and who have arranged caste certificates form 1977-78 availed of the benefits from the State Governments and the Central Governments in jobs, education and in every sphere of life. The hon. Minister of Welfare and the Government of India should pay attention to this and the real tribals living in hills and rural areas and backward areas whose names figure in old lists should not be deprived of these facilities. I am very thankful to Rawat Sahib who expressed his views on backward classes in the House. There should be no injustice to the real Schedule castes and Schedule tribes. They are deprived of the benefits admissible to them in education and service. The Government says that it will fill the backlog of vacancies for Schedule Castes and Schedules Tribes but it is not being filled yet. It is only being shown on 499 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat [Sh. Manikrao Hodlya Gavit] papers that the Government is filling the backlog of vacancies in respect of SC/ST. It has not been filled in Maharashtra. I don't know the position in respect of other States. How many vacancies are there in offices and departments of Government of India in Delhi. People live in Delhi in the name of Schedule of Castes and Schedule Tribes.

We find that people belonging to Schedule Tribes live in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. They live in hills and forests, They are deprived of these tacilites. Even today they are not getting these facilities.

Therefore, I request the Government of India, especially Shri Rawat Saheb that if the Government wants to include some other castes in the original list of Schedule Tribes, it should first conduct a research on it. The Tribal Research Department should conduct the research and go through past 3-4 hundred years record and make further inclusion. Bogus, and forged cast whose educational and economic condition is sound should not be included. Thanking to Mr. Deputy Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to speak. I request Rawat Saheb to withdraw the bill and also request the Central Government to ensure that no injustice is done to people belonging to Schedule Tribes. With this I conclude.

SHRI VIRENDER SINGH (Mirzapur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I fully support the Bill that has been brought forward by the hon. Member, Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat for inclusion of Banjara caste in the list of Schedule Caste. I would like to say a few words on the reservation provided to Schedule Castes and Schedule Tribes and their progress through reservation. The State Governments as well as the Central Government which talks about reservation of backward classes, Schedule Castes and Schedule Tribes should have a clear outlook a clear policy and good intentions in this regard. Any facility extended for the purpose of mobilising votes, for winning elections or gaining political mileage is a clear indication of a worng policy and doubtful intention, Therefore, policy and intention should be 500 Const. (S.T.) (U.P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat flawless. Our policies and intentions should be flawless in regard to providing reservation to SCs and STs. How many of people who fall under reservation category get the benefit of reservation? How many people, who live in villages know about reservation policy? They should know about it. I understand that educated people in the villages, who themselves are availing the benefits of reservation do not encourage other people belonging to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to avail the benefits of reservation policy as a result of which the people of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, who dwell in villages, are not able to take benefits of reservation. Some arrangements should be made so that the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tribes people living in the villages, are not able to avail the benefits under reservation policy. There are some castes which do not come under reserve category such as bharbhuja. They should be brought under provisions of reservation. The Muslim dhobhis belonging to Baiswar community living in Mirzapur district and the Sidhi and Riva districts in Madhya Pradesh do not come under reserve category in Madhya Pradesh while they come under this category in Uttar Pradesh There are some castes which come under reserve category in a particular State while these are not convered under reservation in some other States. A survey should be conducted and guidelines should be chalked out so that a particular caste in every State should be declared A Scheduled Caste. The standard of living of those persons who come under reserve category is not going to rise. The inferiority complex in them will have to be removed. The people who talks about social justice should go to villages and see that some of those who come under reserve category have developed inferiority complex. How they can be helped to over come the inferiority complex? How can you provide reservation facilities to them? When the inferiority complex develops, you can not remove it by providing jobs and you can not uplift them in this way. You will have to boost their moral so that they should never think themselves as down trodden and consider their lives a burden. Only then you can talk of giving social justice to them. The people 501 Const. (S.T.) (U. P.) order (Amend.) Bill (Amend of schedule) by Shri Bhagwan Shankar Rawat living in the Adivasi areas have a natural aptitude for sports. The games they play, should be associated with the culture of the village and they should be associated. Such as an Adivasi boy can practise archery with great expertise but a boy living in the city can not do so. In the same way the expertise with which a sailor's son can do sailing and swimming an ordinary man living in cities can not do so.